This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Abu Hamza al-Masri article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
A news item involving Abu Hamza al-Masri was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 7 October 2012.
A news item involving Abu Hamza al-Masri was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 20 May 2014.
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Egypt, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Egypt on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EgyptWikipedia:WikiProject EgyptTemplate:WikiProject EgyptEgypt
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Islam, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Islam-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IslamWikipedia:WikiProject IslamTemplate:WikiProject IslamIslam-related
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Oregon, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of Oregon on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.OregonWikipedia:WikiProject OregonTemplate:WikiProject OregonOregon
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject United KingdomUnited Kingdom
The section names sons of Abu Hamza and details their criminal activities and convictions, which are unrelated to those of their father. The section was removed, with the edit summary rm section about AH's sons' crimes. AH was not implicated in any of the crimes, and a "guilt by association" section has no place in this BLP. The section has now been reinserted, with the edit summary a person's children's imprisonment affects his life, hence it's relevant enough to include. Hamza has now been convicted, so it can no longer be claimed that anyone could be influenced into thinking he's a criminal merely because some of his children are. The first sentence may be more persuasive than the second (because the guilt by association, i.e. a taint of guilt deriving from AH's relationship to convicted criminals, is not justified by his own conviction for unrelated crimes). I have no strong opinion either way. I'd be interested to hear from editors who are respected for expertise in BLPs. Writegeist (talk) 05:56, 20 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I know there are precedents, and it's reasonable to take them into account. I also know precedent doesn't necessarily trump other considerations. Rather than get into detailed discussion with you I'm going to wait, as I said, for input from editors who are respected for their expertise in BLPs. Writegeist (talk) 21:08, 20 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If the information has been published in reliable sources in connection with the subject then it is appropriate to be considered for entry in a Wikipedia article. We don't differentiate between positive and negative information on a subject, only that information is used in a neutral and balanced manner. Where we do differentiate is in the quality and amount of sources. If the sources are of dubious reliability, or if the claim comes from only one source, then we tend not to use the material, and if, in addition, the material is potentially libellous, it would not be allowed under policy. In this case the information is not libellous as it is purely factual, and it comes from two reliable sources. A quick search indicates that the topic of the sons is notable, and more details could be added to the article: Telegraph, Guardian, Standard, Standard, Express, Mirror, Hindustan Times, Sunday Times, Independent, The Sun' and not just newspapers: Countering Al-Qaeda in London By Robert Lambert, Islamikaze: Manifestations of Islamic Martyrology By Raphael Israeli, etc. SilkTork✔Tea time09:28, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the clarity, SilkTork. And Jim Michael for the edit. It's good to have confirmation that any (non-trivial) information relating to a BLP subject qualifies for consideration so long as it has been connected to the subject in reliable sources. Writegeist (talk) 15:06, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I have no issue with the content, however, I think it might fit better under the existing family section, since there's already discussion of his son(s') arrest there. It seems a bit out of place where it is right now, and I don't know that it needs to be its own section?12.11.127.253 (talk) 16:59, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I have just added archive links to one external link on Abu Hamza al-Masri. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).
NAn editor has determined that the edit contains an error somewhere. Please follow the instructions below and mark the |checked= to true
If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.