Talk:Syria

Flag discussions

Syrian Arab Republic

Given the rapid fall of the Assad regime due to the recent offensives by the Syrian opposition, I think the Syrian Arab Republic should no longer be viewed as the nominal "official government" of Syria in spite of any international recognition. This would be in step with the developments on the page for Afghanistan circa 15 August 2021 and the resurgence of the Taliban. Ezpler12345 (talk) 23:32, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Agreed that it's probably worth changing the infobox to note the lack of government, and the argument for doing so is steadily increasing hour by hour. On a related topic I think it would be worth splitting off an article on the 1963–2024 Assad-led period of Syrian history (something like Ba'athist Syria)– as a follow-up to the existing Second Syrian Republic. Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 23:38, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. I'm mainly using Afghanistan as a reference for this whole situation, since it also saw a rapid change in government in the recent past so I would definitely be in favor of creating a page for the 1963-2024 Ba'athist government following a change in the infobox. Ezpler12345 (talk) 23:39, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm going to start a Draft:Ba'athist Syria draft article in preparation for move into article space at an appropriate time– if others want to help feel free to. Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 00:25, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Until it is CONFIRMED by a majority of news sources that Assad's government is considered to have 'fallen', we do not simply change the infobox willy nilly. Ba'athist Syria should be kept as a DRAFT until then, and the changes to the infobox MUST be reversed. TheodoresTomfooleries (talk) 03:13, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Agree. We really don't know what is going on right now besides that Damascus has likely fallen, and we especially have no idea what the successor government will be. Let's wait for those things to become more clear before we get ahead of ourselves. DecafPotato (talk) 03:17, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

The Syrian Arab Republic has fallen, it is pretty obvious. I'd prefer to revert to the old version where it simply said Syria w/o a government section in the infobox. LexigtonMisiENG (talk) 03:18, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I'd be more fine with that, I'm just very weary of Wikipedia proclaiming a successor government before even the opposition has. DecafPotato (talk) 03:22, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Agree on reverting to the version w/o a government section Bismarx (talk) 03:22, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Agree, we're at a level of chaos where anything more specific than "Syria" would be plain OR. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 03:23, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

it's pretty obvious is not "confirmed by reliable sources". ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" _(hihi) 03:23, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I prefer if we'd just use the version 3 people have agreed on. Withouth a government section. LexigtonMisiENG (talk) 03:24, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

This should extend to the flag as well, then. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" _(hihi) 03:27, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes, one of the versions w/o a government also had no flag. This seems like the best one to use. Bismarx (talk) 03:29, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Strongly support a no government infobox. Things are extremely fluid right now, and presenting any single government as 'Syria' would be inaccurate. CitrusHemlock 03:30, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I would propose locking the article until this debate is settled. – Anwon (talk) 03:28, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Lock the article and revert it back to its Syrian Arab Republic form UNTIL consensus has been properly reached that the WP:Primary Topic for this article is NO LONGER the Syrian Arab Republic. TheodoresTomfooleries (talk) 03:29, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

It’s already extended locked, it won’t get fully locked without a reason and no consensus for a change isn’t a reason. And please don’t shout Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 03:30, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I oppose this. It is clear that the arab republic government is no longer in power to some sort but it is also unclear who is the continuation government-wise. No flag, and no government infobox seems to be a good option. LexigtonMisiENG (talk) 03:34, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

No government sure, but the flag is known (the green white black stripes with the three red stars) The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 03:36, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

While it seems likely at this point that a government with that flag will rule Syria, it should not be represented until that government clearly exists and has legitimacy. Until then, there is no clearly legitimate government with a flag in Syria, and thus none should be shown. Bismarx (talk) 03:41, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

If that happens, how should it be done? Should they be replaced with placeholders? Or maybe adding an explanation on why there is no flag, or government where they would be? Or both? And how about the coat of arms? Zabezt (talk) 04:25, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Never mind, they were all solved while I was typing that. Zabezt (talk) 04:28, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

The Assad government has lost Damascus per media sources, so it would be inaccurate to display them as the de jure government of Syria for right now. I am in favor of a no-flag, no-official name solution as of right now. Ezpler12345 (talk) 03:35, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@TheTechnician27: there appears to be a consensus forming for no flag, etc in the article. Can you engage here and possibly explain why you restored the SAR flag? ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" _(hihi) 03:44, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

He hasn't talked at all in this discussion. Yet keeps reverting. LexigtonMisiENG (talk) 03:46, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I reverted one edit (which was a single user's unilateral revert to the SAR-recognizing infobox) and otherwise only changed the flags or the official names. Also, I've been keeping an eye on the discussion but haven't been engaging to see if a consensus can form. Ezpler12345 (talk) 03:51, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

In retrospect these past 2 comments don't make sense now that I realize they were talking to TheTechnician instead of me. Whoops. (I'm not a very frequent Wiki user, so I apologize for the misunderstanding). Ezpler12345 (talk) 03:53, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@TheTechnician27 care to join the talk page you wanted to open per your reverts? Scuba 03:52, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

My reverts? I only reverted one edit, and that was the one that said consensus had been established. Do you potentially have me confused for somebody else, Scuba? TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 03:53, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@LexigtonMisiENG, Seems like TheTechnician27 hasn't had any edit reversions, you might want to reclarify who you meant. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 03:56, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I did revert one edit about half an hour ago right after the article got EP, but that should be the only one. Sorry, this is all kind of a cluster right now. 😅 And I guess it's going to be a cluster working on this now. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 03:58, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Ah, his user must have been jumbled up in the edit history mess. My apologies LexigtonMisiENG (talk) 04:02, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I was at first in favor of using both the SAR and Syrian opposition flag (which was my initial edit) until the edits became extremely volatile. I think that given how uncertain the situation is overall, there should not be any recognition of one de jure Syrian government until everything cools down. Ezpler12345 (talk) 03:48, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Did I? It may have been an accident if I overwrote something while editing. My apologies if so. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 03:53, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Well, the page clearly displays the Syrian Arab Republic as the de jure government of Syria so something clearly went wrong. If this was an accident it's no big deal but almost every source has confirmed the fall of the SAR. Ezpler12345 (talk) 03:55, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I completely agree with the fall of the SAR at this point; it's noted in multiple very reliable sources. If I reverted that after that initial one about half an hour ago (before e.g. the NYT and Reuters started covering it), I didn't mean to. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 03:56, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

If so, I would like to request an edit from a permitted user to change the page in recognition of Syria's currently unresolved status when it comes to their de jure government (no flag, no CoA). Ezpler12345 (talk) 03:58, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Also striking "officially the Syrian Arab Republic" from the start of the article. Bismarx (talk) 04:00, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I've done this, but via manual revert, so any relevant information added since then will have to be restored. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" _(hihi) 04:04, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Apparently the prime minister is officially still in charge of the syrian government and is preparing for a peaceful transfer. So the syrian arab republic essentially officially exists and is acknowledged by the opposition until the transition happens. So the assumption it has fallen may be premature idk how it works with wiki policy though. https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-832428 83.248.43.83 (talk) 04:49, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

While remnants of the state known as the Syrian Arab Republic still exist, the government as a whole seems to have collapsed. As the opposition groups (SIG, HTS) do not acknowledge the SAR, and given that they control the vast majority of Syria it would be inaccurate to claim that the SAR is an extant state. Ezpler12345 (talk) 04:56, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Correction: while the military apparatus supporting the state seems to have collapsed, elements of the government seem to still have some remaining influence given the PM's statement. Ezpler12345 (talk) 04:58, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

How on earth could anyone argue that the Syrian Arab Republic is still intact? Scuba 03:47, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

We should follow how the Afghanistan article changed in 2021. Syrian Military Command has confirmed the surrend to the Free Syrian Transitional government. We should change with Reliable sources.

Al Jazeera SOURCE207.96.32.81 (talk) 03:53, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

We still don't know reliably how the new Syrian government and have no sources for it. Shy Shy Tomato (talk) 04:30, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

That's why there is no flag, CoA or official name in the infobox. Ezpler12345 (talk) 05:01, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Edits happen fast and the opposition flag is now in the infobox... Micler (talk) 05:03, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Which goes against the consensus established on this topic, but I digress. Ezpler12345 (talk) 05:05, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@StellaAquila: can you please self-revert? We should not add the Syrian opposition flag until the government is proclaimed and confirmed by reliable sources. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" _(hihi) 05:07, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

The edit appears to have been reverted by another user. Ezpler12345 (talk) 05:14, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@WeaponizingArchitecture please read this thread to see the consensus on having no flags or other symbols of a de jure government in the infobox until further developments can be confirmed. Ezpler12345 (talk) 05:43, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

They serve as caretaker governments in a sense so i think they should be displayed until something comes. The SAR is defunct in all but name so it's the best we got for now. ⛿ WeaponizingArchitecture | yell at me 05:45, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Personally I am in favor of displaying either the SAR and opposition flag or opposition and Salvation Government flag as joint flags, but I feel obliged to follow the consensus that has been reached over the past few hours. Ezpler12345 (talk) 05:48, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

My main concern is how easy misinfo about flags can spread out of wikipedia due to people not knowing the context: This is a topic that we kinda need to specify quickly - the notion syria no longer has a flag can easily become "fact" due to it - I think it's best to display the flags of the factions. ⛿ WeaponizingArchitecture | yell at me 05:57, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps just linking the Flag of Syria page would work as a stopgap, if we really should display something? It'd show that they have a flag while preserving the complicated status. 96dot (talk) 05:59, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

How could this make sense if the flag in that article is just the interim government flag, doesn't it make sense to just add it here? https://www.thenationalnews.com/news/mena/2024/12/09/hts-appoints-mohammed-al-bashir-to-form-new-syrian-government/ the government already has an announced executive leader, and there is consensus by the media, and the Syrian people that the new flag is green white and black with three stars. It was even raised by Syrian embassies across Europe and Asia, signifying that the ministry of foreign affairs approved the flag change. WikiNerd202224 (talk) 19:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

It is still the Syrian Arab Republic until a new constitution replaces the current one. Syrian Arab Republic prime minister and legislature continue in place. 2A01:E34:EC01:E530:583F:38AD:55F4:5AF2 (talk) 20:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Source? the prime minister has conceeded to a caretaker and agreed to transition power, I see no way you can argue that the SAR is still in charge! WikiNerd202224 (talk) 22:30, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

The new Syrian government's ministry of public media (essentially a ministry-wide spokesperson) has an official twitter account that is recently up and running again. In one tweet they refer to the state as the Syrian Arab Republic, to my surprise. It seems even they consider the name of the state to not have changed. I will provide a link to that tweet, in the original Arabic. I read Arabic, and I can confirm the tweet calls the Syrian state seemingly by its official name, the SAR.

Now the question is, how do we differentiate between the SAR post Assad and SAR during Assad?

This is the tweet in Arabic Badfighter-29 (talk) 19:38, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Baathist Syria vs current article name (Syria alone) Abo Yemen✉ 20:04, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

I suggest we add the Green White Black flag as the Syrian Parliament, Embassies, Government buildings have been seen flying them. OR, we can follow the Afghanistan model and have both flags side by side for now GucciNuzayer (talk) 21:17, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

SYRIA HAS FALLEN! CNN AND FOX NEWS CONFIRMED! Semi-protected edit request on 8 December 2024

Coat of Arms File:Emblem of SSG.svg 100.34.203.87 (talk) 03:25, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Not done for now: There is a discussion thread above. Use it. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 03:26, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

What now?

If the Syrian Arab Republic falls completely, what will we do with this article? (More specifically, the flag and coat of arms at the top of the infobox) Zabezt (talk) 03:58, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

See the "Syrian Arab Republic" thread for discussion on this. The current consensus among most editors is to have no flag, coat of arms or official name until the situation has settled down. Ezpler12345 (talk) 04:02, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

An article for Ba'athist Syria already exists and has the flag and coat of arms Bismarx (talk) 04:02, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 December 2024 - redirect to flag of syria page

Temporarily [since no flag really applies currently], we should link to Flag of Syria until a more definitive agreement is reached. This should be similar to the Austro-Hungarian page, with a label just saying something like "(see: Flag of Syria)" above the map part of the infobox. 96dot (talk) 05:19, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

See discussion below. CMD (talk) 11:02, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Adding flags of armed factions in control of most of the country

Probably the best solution we have right now for the flag dillema. While there is no official government, the factions in the civil war serve as temporary caretakers now that the Assad regime has been deposed. The consensus on "no flags" is worrisome as people can spread misinformation about flags if theyre on Wikipedia, so the idea that syria has no flag at all now can easily be spread. ⛿ WeaponizingArchitecture | yell at me 05:46, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

• Keep – I'm personally unopposed to keeping multiple flags with your caption of 'Flags of factions in control of Syria'. While it fails to capture the SAR flag of the holdouts in Latakia and Tartus in the northwest, that doesn't seem like it's going to hold for long, and we could just as easily add the SAR flag back into that list of factions for a total of four flags until it collapses (or if it doesn't). It technically fails to capture ISIS too which has small pockets of control in the south–southeast, but that's really a nitpick due to how insignificant they currently are, and those are liable to quickly disappear as the power vacuum closes. Overall, I think this is essentially the best, most informative way we can present what's currently happening. I wouldn't have a problem with no flag either because it is still a massive cluster, but I don't object to this either. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 05:57, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
• Comment – Mass-pinging Cowboygilbert, GhostOfDanGurney, Bismarx, Freedoxm, ElijahPepe, Skitash, Chaotic Enby, Ezpler12345, Firecat93, and CitrusHemlock as the most involved editors I can find/recall from the past couple hours-ish so we can hopefully reach a final consensus on this. I think what WeaponizingArchitecture has presented is literally the best possible scenario for keeping the flags right now (namely that e.g. Firecat93 has tried and failed to put forth a valid source for a single flag of the interim government), so if it fails, I think the prospect of having any flag in the infobox is dead and buried until this situation develops further. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 06:07, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

  Although I agree with Weapon's point in theory, the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria does not claim to represent the entirety of Syria and therefore its flag (the existence of which I am uncertain of) should not be utilized as a representative of the "flag of Syria". In my opinion, only the flags claiming to represent the entirety of Syria (3-star + Salvation govt. flag) should be utilized if we are to put back the flags. Ezpler12345 (talk) 06:20, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

  Thank you, @Ezpler12345. I agree with you. Firecat93 (talk) 06:22, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

  I have to disagree, as the AAONES controls a large portion of the country, even if they don't claim to represent all of Syria. 🗽Freedoxm🗽 (talk) 06:22, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

• Keep - I believe it is still best to keep the three factions' flags on the article, since there is a revolution going on, and there is currently no official flag of syria.

🗽Freedoxm🗽 (talk) 06:09, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

That's fine, but Syria is a sovereign country. Flags of semi-autonomous groups should not be used. Should the flag of ISIS be included, as it controls small areas of Syrian territory? I don't think so.

After the fall of the Assad regime, the old flag of the Syrian Republic should be used. It is the flag that the unified opposition fought under, and it is the flag that is being carried by thousands of people on the street celebrating in Aleppo, Latakia, Damascus, etc. Firecat93 (talk) 06:11, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I disagree, as the Assad regime has collapsed, and i'm also not sure if Syria is a republic at this point. Because of this other reason, I am not changing opinion. 🗽Freedoxm🗽 (talk) 06:15, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

The Flag of Syrian Republic is the three starred flag. After the Baathist Revolution, the Baathist Party flag of Syria was used. Now that the Baathist Regime has fallen, the flag on the article should be reverted to the original Flag of the Syrian Republic. Thank you for considering my perspective. Firecat93 (talk) 06:15, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure I follow the logic that if a regime falls, we simply fall back on the previous flag by default. To take this to an absurd, if the US today suddenly collapsed, would we revert back to the Grand Union Flag? I understand the connection between the revolution and the flag, but I just don't think amidst this chaos that there's a good case for a single flag (de jure or de facto) right now. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 06:23, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I dont think that we should use any flag atm because no official flag yet. The war is still going on and at the time I am writing this, the opposition haven't yet formally established their state. So no flags per WP:CRYSTALBALL Abo Yemen✉ 06:13, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

The Flag of Syrian Republic is the three starred flag. After the Baathist Revolution, the Baathist Party flag of Syria was used. Now that the Baathist Regime has fallen, the flag on the article should be reverted to the original Flag of the Syrian Republic. Thank you for considering my perspective. Firecat93 (talk) 06:16, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

We will have to wait for a formal declaration first Abo Yemen✉ 06:17, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

OK Firecat93 (talk) 06:18, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@Abo YemenAbo Yemen @Freedoxm @TheTechnician27 @WeaponizingArchitecture@Cowboygilbert, @GhostOfDanGurney, @Bismarx, @ElijahPepe, @Skitash, @Chaotic Enby, @Ezpler12345, @CitrusHemlock

The Houthis control a significant part of Yemen, but their flag is not featured atop the Yemen Wikipedia page. Hezbollah basically has full autonomy over Southern Lebanon, but their flag is not used atop the Lebanon Wikipedia page. There are many different Libyan factional groups, but only the Libyan flag is featured atop the Libya Wikipedia page. Hamas controls the Gaza Strip, but the flag on the Palestine Wikipedia page is not the Hamas flag or the Fatah flag. I believe that the same logic should apply here. Syria should be respected as a sovereign country. The flag of Syrian Republic is the three starred flag. It was only after the Baathist Revolution that the Baathist Party flag of Syria was used. Now that the Baathist Regime has fallen, in my view, the flag on the article should be reverted to the original flag of the Syrian Republic, which was also the unofficial flag of the Syrian Revolution and unified opposition groups. Thank you for considering my perspective.

Please see the @Ezpler12345's very insightful comment below:

"Although I agree with Weapon's point in theory, the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria does not claim to represent the entirety of Syria and therefore its flag (the existence of which I am uncertain of) should not be utilized as a representative of the "flag of Syria". In my opinion, only the flags claiming to represent the entirety of Syria (3-star + Salvation govt. flag) should be utilized if we are to put back the flags."

P.S. @WeaponizingArchitecture: Nobody is yelling at you. We are just having a discussion. Please don't take it personally! Firecat93 (talk) 06:25, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

The Houthis use the flag of Yemen (red white black)

https://english.news.cn/20240922/61d83375c73945588e396468cb810e42/c.html The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 06:26, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

yeah lol Abo Yemen✉ 06:29, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Alrighty. Besides, stop pinging me, I'm already locked in on this. I'd really appreciate it if you stop pinging me and move on with your day. 🗽Freedoxm🗽 (talk) 06:26, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

This is the second time I have been pinged in this thread and this message doesn’t pertain to me. Please don’t ping me again unless it’s something specific towards me. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 06:27, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

As I noted previously, the logic that we revert back to the previous government's flag by default really doesn't make sense. Taken to an absurd, were the US to collapse today and were we to apply this logic, the article United States would have the Grand Union Flag in its infobox. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 06:28, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I support Abo Yemen's latest edit (removal of all flags until we have more information) Firecat93 (talk) 06:33, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Because the goverment is still in power in most of the country, while in Syria there is no government body. There's a difference here. Also the houthis use the yemeni tricolor as well. ⛿ WeaponizingArchitecture | yell at me 13:21, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I maintain my opinion there should not be any flag of any faction until a new government is proclaimed. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" _(hihi) 06:27, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Also, please stop pinging me, I have this watchlisted. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" _(hihi) 06:28, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

• Comment - Reminder that there is still Assad-controlled regions in Lakatia and Tartus, which Assad could be in right now. I think that we should add the rebel flags and the current Assad-ruled Syria flag. So 4 flags in total. Bigfatman8766 (talk) 07:01, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

The green flag is the leading flag, it is said Assad has fallen and many Syrians are seen holding the Green flag, I'd say it is best to have it as the Green flag as of now, since it is clear which flag is being raised and which isn't. 2603:7080:2300:332:DDB9:CA4D:174C:22FD (talk) 10:53, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

doesn't matter if it is unofficial Abo Yemen✉ 11:00, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

• Comment - Why the rush? Isn't it a bit too soon? Lets just wait and see what happens, then update the article accordingly. There isn't any need to update the article in real time whilst things are still developing. IJA (talk) 10:57, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

  Furthermore, the change should be based on some source saying flag x is or isn't the flag of Syria. None have been provided in this discussion. CMD (talk) 11:01, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

  Because wikipedia can accidentally spread misinformation about flags. ⛿ WeaponizingArchitecture | yell at me 13:22, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

• Comment - For now the best course of action is to not use any flag in the infobox, at that point we might as well add government information for the various claimants. Until countries begin to recognize one of the claimants as either the de facto or de jure successor, no flag should be added.CitrusHemlock 15:14, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

• Comment - I don't know when the discussion is going to end but it seems like most of the people who have voted want to put up the 3 flags - if no one is opposed to it then I'll go ahead and do so - The new interim government is expected to be formed tomorrow, so it should be a good temporary solution as opposed to having no symbols listed, which could lead to confusion and more edit warring. ⛿ WeaponizingArchitecture | yell at me 18:15, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

  I am opposed to this. Once the government is formed, we should use the flag that they use (which is going to be the 3 star flag probably) and that one only Abo Yemen✉ 18:45, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

  I disagree with WeaponizingArchitecture and agree with Abo Yemen Firecat93 (talk) 19:21, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

  People are going to keep re-adding the flags unless its made clear what is being used. We don't know when the new government will be formed - Considering wikipedia is often consulted first for flags, it's imperative we have something to prevent misinformation. ⛿ WeaponizingArchitecture | yell at me 21:50, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

  OK, then let's use the single flag of the Republic of Syria (see: Flag of Syria) Firecat93 (talk) 22:24, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

  I haven't seen anyone adding the flags after we have added the notes and and reverted that one guy. Plus since when were we the ones who chose the flags for the countries? Us adding a flag when it is not yet official is not what we're supposed to do. People can wait with us too Abo Yemen✉ 06:43, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

  They just declared a transitional government and yet no flag has been adopted yet. I'm going to go ahead and re-add the 3 main flags back because the flag seems like the lowest of the new government's priorities right now. We can't keep the section empty forever. ⛿ WeaponizingArchitecture | yell at me 00:30, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

  @WeaponizingArchitecture: Your version was quickly changed to 1 free flag. So I reverted to the stable version without flags. We'd better reach some kind of consensus and note it on top of the talk page or these endless reverting back and forth would go on forever.  — 魔琴 (Zauber Violino) [ talk contribs ] 02:28, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

  Looks like it was re-reverted again, at this point I'm tempted to make it a RfC so we don't have a back-and-forth with 20 different threads. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 02:42, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

  Thx :3 LibertarianLibrarian85 (talk) 02:50, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

  There is a very reasonable chance a new government emerges and begins to sort out issues such as representation (which will be a priority, for foreign relations if nothing else) before an RfC is finished. CMD (talk) 03:55, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support the revolutionary flag with adding a note "de facto flag" for now.

Beshogur (talk) 12:04, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Support since revolutionary flag with note too. WikiNerd202224 (talk) 13:00, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

• Comment - I think i'd prefer to not displayed on this flag, because the new Government is not officialy declared.

Baqotun0023 (talk) 14:11, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Oppose no flag this is asinine, we had the Ba'athist flag alone in the infobox when there was a civil war, now the Syrian transitional government controls most of the territory but we're not putting their flag in the infobox because: ?????????.

This makes no sense, put the flag up. Scuba 21:24, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Support the revolutionary flag given that it's already used by government websites and agencies (see sources in my post below) Cscescu (talk) 14:02, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Support single revolutionary flag - There presently is no government of Syria, presumably this won't last long however, but until then, I would support changing the flag to the revolutionary flag, especially given it's now being used in a quasi-official capacity, as above. There will be no RS that the flag has been officially made the flag of the state of Syria, because as of now there are no officials at all except the Prime Minister to make that hyper-specific announcement or determination, it already being so obvious to all that it is not needed to be announced, and when there is more pressing matters to attend to, like continuity of the state and preservation of its institutions. There are already enough sources that the flag is being used by the government in a representative fashion of the entire state, not just the resistance, even if there is no legal document to attest to this. Factions like AANES (Rojava) or ISIS have made no claim on "The state of Syria", Rojava only claiming Kurdistan and ISIS having an undefined "Islamic State", basically as much territory as they can capture, they've literally declared a "Worldwide Caliphate", not just Syria. Sources supporting the remnants of the government using it to represent the (new) state, from the Flag of Syria article:

Subsequently the "Independence flag" began to be flown within the country and at Syrian embassies abroad.

</MarkiPoli> <talk /><cont /> 09:39, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Alert: brigade attempt https://www.reddit.com/r/Syria/comments/1h9bgri/comment/m0zrkap/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button 2603:9001:300:81A:A92E:4AD2:8220:5147 (talk) 13:17, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

please find something else other than a random redditor ⛿ WeaponizingArchitecture | yell at me 14:50, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

References

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 December 2024 (2)

Flag should be changed to this one https://flagmakers.co.uk/media/g0ddkbjp/1932-1958_1961-1963.png 8.9.95.44 (talk) 07:40, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done see the discussion above Abo Yemen✉ 07:43, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 December 2024 (4)

I need to change the flag so its the new one 94.228.86.83 (talk) 10:10, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done The regime had fell but we have yet to wait for an official declaration from the new government Abo Yemen✉ 10:30, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Could we please stop constantly adding and removing the flag?

It's starting to get silly Trade (talk) 13:11, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

The same problem, the flag has already been changed. Why to remove it is not very clear. Alter73 (talk) 13:53, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

how did you know? did they establish their new constitution already and specify what the flag is supposed to be like? or is it just you being impatient see also WP:THEREISNODEADLINE Abo Yemen✉ 13:58, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm with Abo on this one. WeaponizingArchitecture provided I think the best alternative to no flag currently feasible, and it's clear that even that's contentious. The article is extended-protected, and putting up a flag still turns into a game of "Duck Season, Rabbit Season". That implies to me that neither side is ignorant of Wikipedia norms or of the facts; it's just an inherently murky situation. It's good, common practice that when even a bunch of experienced editors can't agree on what something should be (not just that "mine is better", but that "yours is wrong"), the answer until it becomes clearer is "nothing". I would further argue that the PM and the SAA ceding control to the rebel groups is a cause for them to be considered "the" Syrian government, but until they announce an official flag, the flag really technically is "nothing". TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 14:15, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/after-assads-fall-syrian-opposition-flag-unfurled-at-athens-embassy-7200516

The flag is already being displayed in embassies and cities in Syria and is generally used by the current official government, to which power has already been officially transferred. It is only a matter of time before it is written into the constitution. Alter73 (talk) 14:23, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I am of the view that we should use this flag as it is clear that it is being used. If for any reason they use a different flag, then we change it. But for now, it is clear that the intention is to use this flag as seen in the offices post-transfer of power. EmpAhmadK (talk) 14:32, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia is built on reliable sources, not on what is "clear that is being used". We're not original reporting. Given current reliable reporting, the absolute extent of what we can surmise that it's probably going to be the rebel flag, but we're also not a crystal ball. What we can say concretely is that the opposition flags are being used in widespread celebration in Damascus. When we can say concretely that the rebel flag is currently the flag of Syria is either when the rebel leadership (which the SAA command and the PM are officially handing control off to, thus making them the official government) announce an official flag or when they write it into an official, binding document like a constitution. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 14:45, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

flags are official if they are described in a constitution of some sort and not by flying flags that may not necessarily be used by all factions Abo Yemen✉ 14:38, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 December 2024 (5)

the syrian flag has been changed 185.147.101.177 (talk) 16:23, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

It hasn't. The provisional government has not adopted a new flag, and the rebel groups use numerous different flags to represent themselves. The infobox doesn't use any flags or symbols as of yet because of this. TheodoresTomfooleries (talk) 16:26, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Welp, they do now Viceskeeni2 (talk) 18:08, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done and please wait till an official declaration Abo Yemen✉ 16:29, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Flag

Shouldon't we put this flag:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_Syrian_revolution.svg on the infobox, since it is the flag used by the rebel groups and waved at the country now? JJUPLOADS22 (talk) 18:46, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Or we just wait until a confirmation of use? JJUPLOADS22 (talk) 18:47, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

we are waiting for an official delaration first Abo Yemen✉ 18:48, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

We need official confirmation from the provisional government, which hasn't yet officially adopted any flag, let alone the Syrian opposition one. Ilhamnobi (talk) 19:15, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

well there is no declaration about the new flag yet, but we can predict to some extent what it might be 84.143.169.115 (talk) 19:43, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

WP:CRYSTAL the wildfire update guy that also writes about other weather (talk) 19:47, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

NO. The new government hasn't made any official confirmation of a new flag or anything + the AANES controls the east part of the country and they have their own flag, we must wait. Regioncalifornia (talk) 19:44, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Because there is no single rebel group controlling a majority of Syria. Syria is split in 5 ways between Kurds/Americans, Israelis, the FSA, the HTS and the rump remnants of the Assad government. 145.40.150.167 (talk) 20:11, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

This flag should probably be put up there in due time, but probably not immediately. This is a very fluid situation. However the previous flag which was used under Assad should absolutely not be used anymore. I think continued observation of this situation is warranted and further discussion can take place after new developments. --NevadaExpert (talk) 20:27, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Flag change

Ok. So I know that Syria has changed, Change the flag to this please.

File:Flag of Syria (1930–1958, 1961–1963)

new flag

— Preceding unsigned comment added by TheGreatDSW (talk • contribs) 19:25, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Update the flag

It has been updated on the "Flag of Syria" article, so why not update it on the main article? Hexonite (talk) 20:23, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

No flag should be used, here or there, until a new government is proclaimed. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" _(hihi) 20:24, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@GhostOfDanGurney the transitional government alr formed and the three stars is widely used so maybe can add this Foxy Husky (talk) 00:57, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

To what extent can we consider that there is a new government proclaimed and that a new flag should be used if in ambassies like the one in Madrid, the Baaz Syrian flag is being taken down and the green white and black flag being raised? Because if we consider that official then maybe we should consider changing it. Below is my source

https://x.com/elmundoes/status/1865834735781499163 WilliamTokunaga (talk) 01:27, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Also these I want to add

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoBSZrN9Xds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwYoCsSI2a4 you can see the flag being used here RossoSPC (talk) 02:00, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

@GhostOfDanGurney There is a new government, see the Syrian transitional government. Scuba 21:22, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Flag

Should we change the flag section to include the de facto green-white-black flag with three red stars? 108.27.60.251 (talk) 02:58, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

• The new flag is being flown at the Syrian embassy in Russia - https://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2024/12/09/syrian-opposition-flag-installed-on-embassy-building-in-russia- Dn9ahx (talk) 09:04, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

  doesn't matter. It isn't official yet. See #Adding flags of armed factions in control of most of the country Abo Yemen✉ 09:26, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

  Oh, so I guess the Syrian transitional government, and all the rebels are just undergoing mass psychosis and actually want to keep the ba'athist flag. Scuba 21:28, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

  Do you even know what an "Official flag" is? Abo Yemen✉ 03:49, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

  The Union Jack has no "official" status as the Flag of the United Kingdom, it's status as the national flag is entirely de facto insisting that a flag must be officially proclaimed in order to be shown on it's Wikipedia page would mean that the Union Jack would have to be removed from the UK's page. Additionally there are other historical examples of national flags existing in a de facto capacity only, such as the pre-1965 Canadian Red Ensign. Not having the de facto national flag on this page contravenes established Wikipedia precedent. 2204happy (talk) 20:24, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

  We probably have literally thousands of sources saying the Union Jack is the flag of the United Kingdom. CMD (talk) 03:07, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

  Why are we comparing the UK's irrelevant flag laws to syria's? Previous Syrian state had a clear flag law on their constitution so I don't see why they wouldn't describe the flag on their upcoming constitution. The old constitution (In Arabic) (see page 4) Abo Yemen✉ 05:54, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 December 2024 (2)

I think the page of Syria should have the flag of the Syrian opposition which is in order from top to bottom: green, white and black horizontal tricolor with three five pointed red stars in the middle white stripe that go horizontally. NorthernRepublic3 (talk) 10:14, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: Ongoing discussion above. CMD (talk) 10:19, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Edit request: new flag and coat of arms

Could someone please add the green-white-black flag? It used to be here but for some reason it was reverted. Bulbasaur777Eevee (talk) 11:48, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: Ongoing discussion above. Abo Yemen✉ 15:42, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 December 2024 (4)

I would like to add the new flag following the ending of the Assad regime 2A00:23C5:D045:901:4587:2FD6:38DD:558C (talk) 16:59, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: Ongoing discussion above. Abo Yemen✉ 17:05, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Why is there no flag in the infobox

The title is self explanatory. Is this because Syria is under an interim government? RedactedHumanoid (talk) 19:53, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes. The interim government hasn't declared an official flag yet formally. Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 22:50, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

This is not true. The transitional government is using the revolutionary flag, as seen in videos with the new PM. Cscescu (talk) 14:03, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

They flew the Tawhid flag too but that is not official by your reasoning somehow Abo Yemen✉ 14:06, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Various Syrian embassies around the world started flying the revolution flag. AmericanBaath (talk) 12:27, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

we know. Go read the RFC and the other discussions Abo Yemen✉ 12:39, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Flag Change Obstructionism

The new government is literally raising the Free Syrian flag over its embassies around the world you've got assadists and rojavaboos here trying to bs everyone with their hot takes on "the situation not being over".

I call on senior admins to intervene and end this circus by letting us add the Free Syrian Flag. It's been a long hard struggle and the its the least that can be done. LibertarianLibrarian85 (talk) 20:15, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Admins, even "senior admins", cannot override community consensus. That is neither an admin's job, nor a power they have. However, asking an experienced editor for guidance on starting a community discussion about the flag is very much a possibility (but again, the decision is community consensus, not a senior editor's authority). I would be happy to set that up, and help centralize the many talk page questions about the flag by opening a request for comment if needed. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 20:56, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

If the "community consensus" is insane and not backed in what we can see with our own two eyes, then yes, admins should get involved and fix it. Only the deranged could argue that we should either have no flag or the old flag when the rebels are in power. Scuba 21:26, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

No, if most people do not agree with your opinion, it doesn't mean that you can declare them "insane" and "deranged". You can argue for your (totally reasonable) position without insulting others Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 22:05, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Ba'athist Syria is done, keeping their flag up and denying the opposition's use of their flag is deranged behavior. Scuba 23:05, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Please stop insulting other users. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 23:10, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

I agree with scuba

Stop gaslighting us

PUT UP THE FLAG! LibertarianLibrarian85 (talk) 22:54, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

It has nothing to do with "Rojavaboos" - It's because the government doesn't have an official flag yet, and flags are unfortunately a massive source of misinformation to spread here on Wikipedia. ⛿ WeaponizingArchitecture | yell at me 00:28, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

@WeaponizingArchitecture Agreed. Flag needs to be changed back, or the de jure syrian flag needs to be put under the de facto one until it is either specifically confirmed by the new government that a flag change has taken place, or it becomes internationally recognized as the new flag, which as of yet it is not - it is just the rebels flag as of this point. 73.68.171.223 (talk) 02:51, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

I think it's more that Wikipedia editors tend to a little bit autistic in that they like to place a lot of emphasis on officialdom, despite the fact that there are many historical examples of commonly accepted national flags only existing in a de facto capacity. A perfect example is the Union Jack, which has no official status as the National Flag of the United Kingdom. 2204happy (talk) 20:27, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi, just to clarify, being too attached to the "official" status of things isn't the same as autism, and using "autistic" as a pejorative that way isn't the most respectful. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 20:33, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

1) I'm Autistic

2) I wasn't using it a pejorative 2204happy (talk) 21:34, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

As an autistic editor, I'll state that following WP:RS for determining what the flag of Syria is doesn't mean it's autism. There is no harm in being patient while we wait for good reliable evidence that it is indeed the de facto flag now. Abzeronow (talk) 21:20, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Is the new prime minister sitting in front of the flag not enough evidence? 2204happy (talk) 21:36, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

We are not looking for evidence, we are looking for reliable sources that have assessed the evidence. CMD (talk) 03:08, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 December 2024 (5)

The syrian opposition flag should be added to the article after the fall of the Assad regime 109.253.160.3 (talk) 20:26, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

 Discussion ongoing, see above. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 23:05, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

RfC: Flag?

Which flag(s) should be used in the Syria infobox?

• A: No flag
• B: The Syrian revolutionary flag
• C: The flags of the main factions in control
• D: The Syrian Arab Republic flag

Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 03:01, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Survey

B pour favor LibertarianLibrarian85 (talk) 03:20, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

B Because "De Facto" Syrian has a new goverment Baqotun0023 (talk) 03:22, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

A - Option B is WP:TOOSOON due to a lack of reliable, English-language sources confirming any provisional government or "de facto" flag, Option C is too cluttered and Option D is a non-starter at this point. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" _(hihi) 03:37, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

To better put it in PAG terms (since TOOSOON is an essay on article notability), option B does not meet WP:V yet since there is no indication in reliable sources that this is the official flag. Will it in the future? Probably. But we're not a WP:CRYSTAL ball and can't predict the future. I think the best option is to show no flag, and have a prominent link to Flag of Syria which explains the situation for readers who aren't versed enough in PAG (which is okay!) to understand why B is inappropriate right now. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" _(hihi) 17:55, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

People here (and outside wiki) fail to realize that there isn't a Syrian state atm. No declaration has been made yet. They might say that the new Syrian transitional government is established but fail to see that there has been a revolutionary govt but without a state since 2017 (see Syrian Salvation Government#Government and politics) Abo Yemen✉ 18:15, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

A should stay for now till the new govt officially announces that the Syrian revolutionary flag (B) is the new flag Abo Yemen✉ 03:53, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

A per WP:TOOSOON and WP:NOTNEWS. Also, if we have disputes between B and C, then choosing either of them seems WP:OR. No flag would be the better solution.  — 魔琴 (Zauber Violino) [ talk contribs ] 06:35, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

B state institutions websites are being adapted to the new revolutionary flag. Cscescu (talk) 14:08, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

C since we need at least something on there to stop confusing people (who are now accusing the article of being biased towards assad/rojava), this is the best solution until an official flag is declared. ⛿ WeaponizingArchitecture | yell at me 15:23, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

This is your second time participating in the RFC. Delete either this one or the one you forgot to sign Abo Yemen✉ 15:30, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

My bad, I forgot. ⛿ WeaponizingArchitecture | yell at me 17:11, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

B - Flag is being used by Syrian embassies around the world and since today in Syrian institutions in Damascus. (https://x.com/descifraguerra/status/1866495965114577221) Elserbio00 (talk) 16:01, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately, that would be considered WP:original research since we would just be inferring that because Syrian embassies are using it, it is official. We need multiple reliable sources to state that for us to move forward. Penguino35 (talk) 17:03, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

A as anything else requires outdated sources or WP:original research. Penguino35 (talk) 17:06, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

A for now. WP:NOTNEWS. We should wait for widespread diplomatic recognition or reliable sources before we go to B. Abzeronow (talk) 17:36, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

B along with a caption of "de facto" under the flag. No confirmation of official status yet but there's enough use of it by new government institutions to be able to do so, I would say. Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 17:53, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

We can't predict that everything is just going to happen and transition seamlessly, though. This is why we should wait until something official is confirmed. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" _(hihi) 18:02, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Sure, but there is already enough use of the three-star flag in an official capacity (various embassies, the football team, the new PM having the flag behind him in official capacity, etc) that we can definitely say that it is the de facto flag even if not yet official. Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 19:59, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

• A until flag of new state is announced, obviously. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:16, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

B is widely being used in official capacities by the government. Jumper4677 (talk) 20:19, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

B There are many examples of national flags only existing in a de facto capacity, the most notable example being the Union Jack, which has no official status as the National Flag of the United Kingdom. Are some people here seriously insinuating that the Union Jack should be removed from the UK's Article because it is not "official"? 2204happy (talk) 20:30, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

B Enough state institutions have used or showed intent to use it, at this point waiting for a constitutional change would be no different than withholding information. ElementLover (talk) 21:49, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

B Waiting for an official source to formally declare it as the new Syrian flag is a valid concern. However, as pointed out above, it has been used pervasively around official circles, such as in a governmental website, waiting for an official announcement would withhold something obvious. I believe WP:IGNORE may be in order here to improve this article. Aintabli (talk) 23:20, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

B Flags are not always adopted through "official" legislation or announcements, especially after a regime change. Insisting on an unrealistically high standard of proof here would just obscure the facts on the ground. It is quite obvious what the current national flag of Syria is. AquaVacation (talk) 23:53, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

B used by the opposition, de facto rulers of Syria despite no constitution. Add as de facto flag. Beshogur (talk) 23:48, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

B it's the flag of those in power, and Assad's regime is unlikely to return. Bastique ^{☎ call me!} 00:23, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

B as it's the de facto flag of the country post-Assad. Michail (blah) 02:41, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

B with the caption “flag of the Syrian transitional government” to show that this is not a prediction of the official flag but rather a de facto flag used by the country and its new government The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 04:54, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

This sounds good as long as the flag of Syria page doesn't get updated till we get an official declaration Abo Yemen✉ 06:51, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Oh and we will have to put the Tawhid flag (basically the same one as the Taliban flag) next to it cus the new govt uses it as seen on pics from the new prime minister here and here and on Jolani's cnn interview Abo Yemen✉ 07:12, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

It's not the same, it's 2:3 and the design is slightly different. We need to see an unfurled version. Beshogur (talk) 18:40, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

2:3 is an easy fix. The Tawhid flag has no standard design Abo Yemen✉ 18:42, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

B. More than enough sources now, even if there is no one definitive document defining the flag (as others have said, not all governments even have their flags defined by law, such as the Union Jack). The government is using it as "their flag", even if there's no official document confirming as such. It can be listed as "de facto flag" or some such in the infobox if needed.</MarkiPoli> <talk /><cont />

• A: Until it's clear what the flag of the new government will be. WP:TOOSOON and it would be misleading to have the flag that's not official. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:39, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
• A This is really the only option that's backed by policy. WP:TOOSOON and WP:NOTTHENEWS apply here and editors should exercise more patience when it comes to current breaking news. Nemov (talk) 14:13, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
• Note that this discussion was linked on the community Discord at roughly 06:00 UTC. Hey man im josh (talk) 15:27, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
• A: We should wait until the situation becomes clearer. ―Howard • 🌽³³ 16:49, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
• B. The Syria article in most other languages uses the Free Syria flag. Zabezt (talk) 17:05, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

  Wikidata uses that flag since other Wikipedias tend to follow Wikidata. Abzeronow (talk) 17:51, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

• A: The current situation regarding government is still unclear, and until all of this is sorted out and we see it being used officially, then no flag should be displayed. Cutlass^Ciera 19:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

This should be closed as way too early and with zero sources.Moxy🍁 03:25, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Per WP:RFCBRIEF, the RfC statement should only be the question itself, and shouldn't include sources to make an argument. Given the many attempts at discussing the topic above, with varying levels of organization, having a centralized RfC on the topic isn't "way too early" in my opinion. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 03:30, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Simply a waste of everyone's time....as shortly we'll actually have a proper answer. Moxy🍁 03:49, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Right, this requires following our policies, not an RfC. The answer here is A, as there are no sources. However, once we have a source, it'll immediately flip to whatever that source says, likely B, possibly something else. If more sources develop to contest that, which is possible, then that's an entirely new discussion. CMD (talk) 04:20, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

I don't fault Chaotic Enby for trying to consolidate everything above into one RfC. The root issue is impatience of trying to ram through the revolutionary flag which lead to so many threads in the first place. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" _(hihi) 04:39, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

As much as I agree that it is the most reasonable, policy-based argument, the fact that people repeatedly ask to change it and that the infobox situation keeps getting reverted means that it is better to have this formally settled. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 07:00, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

The government link posted in the most recent new section [1] seems a potential indicator, although clearly not everything is updated. CMD (talk) 12:05, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Can anyone vectorize that coat of arms? we should be using it once the state is officially established Abo Yemen✉ 12:50, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Vectorizing is easy, even easier is editing File:Coat of arms of Syria (1980–2024).svg which is what they presumably did. Adding a star and changing a color probably doesn't affect copyright status, so it should be okay? CMD (talk) 13:00, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

On the wider question of should we use it, that file still has Syrian Arab Republic written on it, so while it could be the planned CoA moving forward it could also be the very quick work of one webdev who wanted to change one flag. CMD (talk) 13:04, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Interesting, apparently it's a very recent change. Wayback has the two-star CoA on 4 December, then just earlier today there was no file at that location, before the three-star one was uploaded some time between then and now. CMD (talk) 13:08, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

If that is the case then its probably a rushed edit just to remove the bashar flag from the coat of arms Abo Yemen✉ 13:21, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

I went ahead and vectorized the file at Commons:File:Coat of arms of Syria (2024-2024).svg. ⛿ WeaponizingArchitecture | yell at me 20:40, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

I've written a short blurb in the flag section so that people stop adding talk page requests for "why is there no fsa flag" - Should be replaced with the outcome of the RfC when that concludes. ⛿ WeaponizingArchitecture | yell at me 19:33, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Syrian Flag

I don't understand why is the Syrian flag not there. The flag is raised in every corner in the country, supported by the new transitional government, and institutions and governmental agencies adopted the flag. 2600:1700:6E1:7670:51AA:D740:E3DC:1F30 (talk) 08:26, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Raised everywhere != Official flag. Rojava's flag is raised in northeast syria yet it isn't the official flag Abo Yemen✉ 10:25, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Nobody recognizes Rojovo. It doesn't have to be official but de facto, in which the opposition uses right now. Beshogur (talk) 23:51, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

This is an arbitrary rule. There is no requirement on Wikipedia for things to be "official" before we use them. They just have to be reliably sourced. Michail (blah) 02:46, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 December 2024

I would like a change of Syrian Flag to Syrian flag that Rebels are using a flag that Syria used when Syria gained independence 2A00:102A:500E:F743:4C7D:446E:B85:41F2 (talk) 08:55, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

See ongoing discussion. CMD (talk) 08:57, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Dont rush here wait sometimes until flag is fully confirmed. Mithilanchalputra(Talk) 09:37, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Add the flag, it's becoming ridiculous.

The flag is already in use everywhere, including by the new authorities and by embassies worldwide. The official website of the Prime Minister has already changed the Coat of Arms As you can see here The Facebook People's Assembly page is using the revolutionary flag. The National Football team has changed its logo: you can check it out here. Please stop blocking these changes which fully reflect reality. Cscescu (talk) 11:54, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: see Talk:Syria#Flag discussions above Abo Yemen✉ 11:58, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

I have provided three different sources for the changes. This is arbitrary and contravenes the spirit of Wikipedia's guidelines. Cscescu (talk) 12:59, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia is a collaborative project and works from consensus between editors. There is a RfC above if you wish to participate and give your input. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 13:01, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

The state hasn't been established yet. We dont even know what the official name for the state would be Abo Yemen✉ 13:03, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

That's not how it works. There is no power vacuum, there is direct continuity between the structures of the Assadist regime and the transitional government. The state exists, it has embassies and international representation, its websites and public services are workin, and a transition ceremony took place between the old and new PMs. Your arguments have no legal nor political bases. Cscescu (talk) 14:11, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

There is no power vacuum
see the Succeeded by section of the Ba'athist Syria infobox
The state exists
Where is the constitution
Your arguments have no legal nor political bases
neither does yours It doesn't have to have whatever that means. Here on Wikipedia, we have our own policies and guidelines that we adhere to. Abo Yemen✉ 14:15, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

That definitely doesn't work as the user told above. See Afghanistan example as well. Also lot of countries have no constitution. Beshogur (talk) 23:48, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

The United Kingdom doesn't have a constitution. I guess it doesn't exist and we should also remove the flag? Michail (blah) 02:48, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

why is the UK the norm here? The previous state had a clear law on the flag. Plus there is no syrian state atm. Yall should be worrying about the state's official name more than the flag Abo Yemen✉ 05:59, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

You keep saying there's no Syrian state, but that's not a correct statement. Just because a country is in the midst of a regime change does not mean its statehood disappears.

National flags do not have to be adopted by law or in a constitution. Historically, those official acts have often been used to confirm flag changes that have already happened. Algeria is a good example: its flag was raised in 1962 but wasn't actually confirmed in law until 1963. It would be very incorrect to say Algeria did not have a national flag during that first year, even though there was no official act that said it was so. AquaVacation (talk) 16:53, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

The consensus so far 10 for A, 16 for B, 1 for C 0 for D. @Abo Yemen consensus is clear, please respect the consensus reached in discussion and allow the new flag to be added. Further modifications must be discussed prior to their inactment, if consensus changes, we will discuss it here. I am going to go ahead and add the flag, as well as update the talk page. WikiNerd202224 (talk) 20:06, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Why is everyone acting like i am the one in control of this article?? plus it is WP:NOTAVOTE Abo Yemen✉ 20:08, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

@WikiNerd202224: The discussion will be closed after 7 days (minimum) by an uninvolved editor. The discussion must be allowed to run its course. Hey man im josh (talk) 20:23, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 December 2024 (3)

Change the syrian flag. The old one is outdated. Change it to the "Free Syrian Flag" on google 94.128.157.147 (talk) 17:30, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

This has been previously discussed (post right above this one). Looks like they're waiting for the flag to be officially designated by constitutional law or any other sort of decree before putting it in the article. Can I has Cheezburger? (talk) 17:39, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

The flag of Syria has been changed 2001:8F8:1165:62A:54FF:CBDD:F658:83 (talk) 17:49, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Is it now time to add a flag?

As of 10 September, the "Independnece Flag" appears to be being used as the de facto flag of Syria. In addition to its use abroad by numerous Syrian embassies, the Syrian parliament (which has switched sides) is using it within thier debating chamber. It was flown during the swearing in ceremony of the transitional government (with a religious flag also being present in the room) and the Syrian Football Association have changed their symbols to include it. The caption below the flag could read "de facto flag" with its status explained in the main Flag of Syria article. Dn9ahx (talk) 18:42, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

I agree with this and also want to add that the picture used for the current transistional prime minister also has that flag in the background. ElementLover (talk) 18:47, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

As ever with Wikipedia I think there's no easy answer. There probably won't be a televised press conference to reveal the flag. There probably won't be an official declaration from someone in a suit outside the UN. Yet here we are with what appears to be cumulative evidence to prove, more or less, that a new flag is in use. I think we are in the same area as with the Afghanistan flag, where there are two flags in place without too much disagreement. doktorb _words^deeds 22:16, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

• https://www.facebook.com/Syrian.Peoples.Assembly
• https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/syria-crisis-mohamed-al-bashir-appointed-caretaker-syrian-pm-for-transitional-government-until-march/videoshow/116183315.cms?from=mdr
• https://flagchronicle.com/2024/12/08/syrian-soccer-association-and-clubs-alter-emblems-to-new-flag-colors/

Dn9ahx (talk) 18:42, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

The official website of the Syrian prime minister's office now depicts an updated coat of arms featuring the independence flag - https://pministry.gov.sy/ Dn9ahx (talk) 22:02, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Definitely agreed. I would say at this point we have fairly unambiguous evidence from news articles, photos and official websites that the Independence flag is being used as the national flag by the new Syrian government. And maybe more crucially, I don't think we have any evidence to support the assertion in the infobox that "Syria does not have an official flag". That's a very strong statement and I suspect we'd struggle to find a source that backs it up. AquaVacation (talk) 23:46, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Instead of trying to find sources to prove the inexistance of a state (p.s. you wont find anything), go find sources that prove that the state is established Abo Yemen✉ 16:59, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 December 2024 (4)

WiKKIuSSR (talk) 20:01, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

how do you apply JNOJ1423 (talk) 02:05, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

I would like to change the flag of Syria to the new one used by opposition forces that recently have taken control of the country

Constitution etc.

Moved from User talk:Abo Yemen § Constitution etc.

 – Abo Yemen✉ 09:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Please stop giving wrong information to other people. You don't need a constitution to use a flag. Many countries have no constitution either, for example Taliban led Afghanistan Islamic Emirate has no parliament, no constitution, and the flags/coa is used on the infobox. So, again stop giving wrong information to people. Beshogur (talk) 09:08, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

@Abo Yemen: yes it's your talkpage, you do whatever you want but this was directed to you. You gave this example 100 times here. It's basically untrue. Constitution is not a criteria for this. Beshogur (talk) 09:16, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Request: can someone create the 2:3 white tawhid flag? Sources are below (it's not exactly the same as Taliban one). Beshogur (talk) 11:31, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Put it up on c:Commons:Graphic Lab/Illustration workshop Abo Yemen✉ 11:39, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Top: white Tawhid flag (took from Afghanistan; need a 2:3 version)
Bottom: Syrian revolutionary flag

If there is consensus on placing the revolutionary flag on the infobox as a de facto then I am okay with it. Its not like i am the one who is controlling this page.
But if we are going to rush it and place it in the infobox now cus the new govt is using it then we will have to use the Tawhid flag on the infobox too as it was used by the govt next to the revolutionary flag as seen on pics from the new prime minister here and here and on Jolani's cnn interview Abo Yemen✉ 09:31, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

I didn't say anything like controlling article or like that but the example you give (maybe others did too idk) is simply wrong. The reason I opened on your talk page is that, don't get me wrong. Also it's even possible a country having two flags, it'll be not so good example but Transnistria. But the rebel flag seems to be used de facto as evindences were presented by many users, and I think therefore should be used here too despite having nothing official. Beshogur (talk) 09:39, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Yeah sure but wouldn't it be better till things get official first? Abo Yemen✉ 09:43, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

We don't even know when the constitution will be drafted etc. Not trying to convince you but tried to say the official thing is wrong if it's de facto used by the ruling authority (HTS for now). If there is a prime minister, and he uses that flag, we should use it on the infobox too. That's my opinion. See Taliban and Afghanistan example. Beshogur (talk) 09:47, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

We don't even know when the constitution will be drafted etc
and we are not a crystal ball so we shouldn't be the ones determining flags here
the ruling authority (HTS for now)
The HTS is not the only faction here, idk if they merged with the other opposition groups but they definitely are not the only ones here
If there is a prime minister, and he uses that flag, we should use it on the infobox too.
Sure but the thing is, who is the one in power? The previous constitution says that the President is the one who actually rules but now that that constitution is no longer is use then who is the one officially in power? I mean yes we can assume it is the PM but is that officially the case? Abo Yemen✉ 09:56, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Nah tried to explain constitution is not a requirement for this. Also Jolani seems to be the kingmaker, the learer of Syria whoever he likes to appoint. Anyways. Beshogur (talk) 10:11, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

We don't need a constitution, we could take say the Prime Minister saying "We've discussed it and this is the flag of Syria". CMD (talk) 13:32, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Drop the source Abo Yemen✉ 13:39, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

I wish, it would solve a lot. CMD (talk) 13:44, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

You made me think that he actually said it Abo Yemen✉ 13:46, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, just thinking of what we would be looking for. CMD (talk) 13:47, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

I mean yeah we could do that and list it as de facto flag if they take too long to create a new constitution Abo Yemen✉ 13:52, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Another example of the dual flag usage from the official website of the govt for future readers
Before the fall of the regime
vs
After the fall of the regime Abo Yemen✉ 10:11, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Yeah thanks. I'll add this. Beshogur (talk) 10:17, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Yeah sure just don't use "took from Afghanistan" as it is irrelevant to Afghanistan and make them top and bottom instead of left and right to make space for the coat of arms Abo Yemen✉ 10:19, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

I mean I'm gonna use it here. Not adding it. Beshogur (talk) 10:20, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

ah okay Abo Yemen✉ 10:20, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Put the new syrian flag bruh

The prime minister of syria used the free syrian flag and not the baathist one Mint eggy93 (talk) 15:10, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Nahh you gotta wait bruh for the RFC above to conclude Abo Yemen✉ 16:57, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Syria article in other languages

The Syria article in most other languages used the new flag and coat of arms. Heck, even the Simple English Wiki uses the new flag. Zabezt (talk) 16:55, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

RFC is ongoing above. We have nothing to do with wikipedia's sister projects Abo Yemen✉ 16:59, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Commented, also just realized most of the edits on those wikis were made by a single user. Zabezt (talk) 17:07, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Edit request (don't know how to format this)

Change "It is now the only country that is governed by neo-Ba'athists, who advocate Arab socialism and nationalism. The country's current Ba'athist government is a totalitarian dictatorship with a comprehensive cult of personality around the Assad family, and has attracted widespread criticism for its severe domestic repression and war crimes."

to

"Up until the capture of Damascus by rebel forces, it was the only country governed by neo-Ba'athists, whom advocated Arab socialism and nationalism. The country's Ba'athist government was a totalitarian dictatorship with a comprehensive cult of personality around the Assad family, and had attracted widespread criticism for its severe domestic repression and war crimes." 2A02:1810:250D:4700:491E:56C7:DD37:2693 (talk) 03:37, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

 Done CitrusHemlock 04:27, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Recent reversion of information in the lead

In this edit a few minutes ago, ElijahPepe reverted a sentence and stated via inline comment: "WAIT FOR CONFIRMATION; THE REUTERS SOURCE IS A CLAIM". I see where the disagreement lies, but I really don't think this is valid. Reuters is extraordinarily reliable for substantiating this sort of thing, and the very first sentence of its article reads: "Syria's army command has notified officers that President Bashar al-Assad's 24-year authoritarian rule has ended, a Syrian officer who was informed of the move told Reuters, following a rapid rebel offensive that took the world by surprise." I think the sentence: "On 8 December 2024, both the rebels and the Syrian Army's command declared that al-Assad's rule had ended." should be reinstated to the lead where it was. Very obviously the rebels have stated this, so I assume the contention ElijahPepe sees is with the SAA command's statement. I get the claim hinges on one officer, but Reuters seems pretty confident this is what has happened. Putting it up to a discussion because arbitration + I'm fallible. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 04:20, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I believe Reuters here, and I actually added this to Bashar al-Assad. However, this is a shifting situation and official confirmation is necessary. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 04:26, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

If you mean that a major news outlet reports not just that an official has said this but that there's some sort of official broadcast by SAA officials or that multiple SAA officials or the PM inform the major outlet of the same thing, then that's sensible; I can work with that. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 04:33, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Government

In the immediate aftermath of the fall of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, the sentence "Since the Taliban captured Kabul on 15 August 2021, the governance of Afghanistan is disputed between the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan and the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan." was added to the start of the article's section on Government and Politics. It seems reasonable to follow that precedent here and say that since the capture of Damascus, the governance of Syria has been in dispute. Bismarx (talk) 04:29, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

If there is a source that you can provide that says that there is a dispute between the de facto and the de jure governments then it could be added. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 04:40, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Similarly, if there ends up being a dispute within the rebel coalition. I think it's fairly obvious that neither the SDF in the northeast nor pockets of ISIS in the south can claim to be the real Syria(TM), but if infighting starts up within the coalition, then potentially. I think they seem pretty unified overall right now, though. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 04:48, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Al Jazeera is reporting that the opposition has declared an end to the Assad regime, while Assad has made no formal concession of power. It seems clear that there is a dispute between the internationally recognized government of Syria and the actual forces on the ground. I would also point to the discussion above to show there is a current dispute. Bismarx (talk) 04:48, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I think it's pretty clear to everyone at this point that the "internationally recognized government of Syria" is no longer internationally recognized as of the last hour or so with the exceptions of a few rogue nations like Russia and Iran which might consider al-Assad a government in exile. The SAA command has ceded control to the rebels; the prime minister has ceded control; and in general, it seems like outside of the northwest (remnants of the SAA), the northeast (the SDF), and the south (small pockets of ISIS), the rebels have full control over and widespread support/minimal resistance within most of the country's major cities including Damascus. The US for example yesterday acknowledged that a military defeat would mark the end of the regime. There really seems to be no dispute outside of Assad himself (who is one man, not the parliament which seem to be peacefully transitioning) and small areas in the northwest (but under this logic, we could've considered Assad's government disputed due to the large SDF presence in the northeast). Even Assad does not appear to have formally challenged this yet, likely trying to keep a low profile while he escapes into exile. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 05:06, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

In this case, it should still be clarified that the government described in the government and politics section is not currently the government of Syria. Bismarx (talk) 05:09, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Need to see what reliable sources say. The situation seems to me to be less of a dispute over which government is legitimate, but rather that there now is no single government in the country, with the remnants of the previous government de facto being a transitional government waiting to be dissolved. Gust Justice (talk) 04:52, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Even if so, this should still be made clear at the start of the section on government and politics. Bismarx (talk) 05:06, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Actually, wait, the Reuters article gives I think compelling evidence it's still disputed. "Syria's army command notified officers on Sunday that Assad's regime had ended, a Syrian officer who was informed of the move told Reuters. But the Syrian army later said it was continuing operations against "terrorist groups" in the towns of Hama and Homs and Deraa countryside." TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 06:26, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Infobox: Name of prime minister should be reinstated

As of now, The syrian PM Ghazi al-Jalali hasn't resigned or left the country. https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/syria-civil-war-damascus/card/syrian-prime-minister-ready-to-cooperate-gG7okAui3MTS7vJA6oHR Hu741f4 (talk) 04:46, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-832428 source of opposition acknowledging his official status as transitional head of government. 83.248.43.83 (talk) 04:52, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

This seems messy to me. On the one hand, al-Jalali hasn't left the country and hasn't abdicated the role of PM. However, per the article linked above by the IP: "Syrian rebel leader Ahmed al-Sharaa said on Sunday that it was prohibited to go near public institutions that he said will remain under the supervision of the "former prime minister" until it is officially handed over." So it hasn't yet officially been handed over, but he's also "former"? It's weird. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 04:56, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Edit request: official language, currency

Obviously, changes have been made to the article/infobox to remove the Assad's regime as the one official government, and not mentioning any disputed government factions either as the situation is totally unclear as yet. Correspondingly, I request that: (1) The "official languages" infobox section, which lists only Arabic with a citation to the Assad regime constitution, be removed. The citation is now inappropriate, and Arabic-only is now inaccurate because the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria also has Kurdish. (2) The "currency" infobox section be removed or changed to list several. The rebel areas apparently use Turkish Lira and immediately introduced it in Aleppo [2] [3], so the status of the Syrian Pound is equally uncertain as all the other government infobox sections. The Kurdish areas apparently also use USD [4]. Micler (talk) 05:01, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Not done for now: The situation is in flux right now. Quetstar (talk) 05:10, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

How can you argue it's appropriate to list no official name, no form of government, no president, no flag, but leave an official language with a reference to a constitution? Micler (talk) 05:18, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Until there is a reliable source stating that the language is changed then it can be changed. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 05:25, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm not saying the language is changed, but I'm saying that IF the Syrian Arab Republic is not considered official for purposes of the infobox, THEN the Syrian Arab Republic Constitution cannot dictate anything in the infobox. Micler (talk) 05:27, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@Cowboygilbert: Please go ahead and take a look at the changes I've made. I think they work quite nicely given the situation. I list (with citations) the 'Major languages' as Arabic and the 'Minor languages' as Kurdish and Aramaic. I don't get into dialects, obviously, or the infobox would be 10 km long. I don't think it's fair for us anymore to call Arabic the 'official language' (we cite this to the Syrian constitution from 2012) because it doesn't seem like there's much of an official anything anymore outside of maybe a capital and a lame duck prime minister. Meanwhile, this also gives us a chance to accurately represent the two most prevalent minority languages. I think Micler's suggestion was a reasonable one and that I've made it work better than what we had before. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 05:41, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I was thinking about this earlier too; I'll get this taken care of, because I agree. However, I mean this just with respect to the languages, not the currency. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 05:10, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Regarding the currency, I think I provided a reliable source that would support either listing >1 currency, or at least not listing the SYP. The Reuters article says: Another sign of intent was printed price lists at petrol stations in Syrian pounds as well as Turkish lira, and U.S. dollars. HTS had long banned the Syrian pound from being used in Idlib but was allowing both it and U.S. dollars to be used in Aleppo. Micler (talk) 05:20, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Other Syrian Articles

consider uptdating this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_symbols_of_Syria Gaius Khufus Caesar (talk) 05:21, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Bring it up at Talk:National symbols of Syria, not here. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 05:23, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Prime Minister

Shouldn't the prime minister be kept in the government infobox since it seems he is going to remain in office for a while at least Gaius Khufus Caesar (talk) 05:58, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Should this article list the "Syrian Arab Republic" as ending on 2024 and start a new syria article?

The new regime is here and they are nothing like the Baathist Syria. I think that the Syria article ends here and a new article should be made marking this new point in Syrian history. RFC btw Abo Yemen✉ 06:03, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@Abo Yemen: A new article already was started expressly for this purpose which is called Ba'athist Syria (Syrian Arab Republic redirects to this). TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 06:09, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

oh nice ig i was late Abo Yemen✉ 06:10, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

This is not a history article. While the Government and politics section will likely change dramatically soon, that does not change the entire page. CMD (talk) 07:35, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Article move

This article is ridiculously prematurely moved. I am not pro-Assad in any shape or form but comparing this to the capture of Afghanistan by the Taliban, this is ridiculously premature. First of all the former took a few days for everyone to fathom and understand, second of all, Syria is not a former state up to 2024. Parts of the nation still remain under government control, like Latakia.

Second of all, it is simply silly to present Syria as a neutral country with a vacant presidency. As of right now the very concept of a President is empty in Syria, which is split three-ways not counting Israeli annexed lands in the southwest. Why is Syria presented as an empty unified state waiting for a leader?

The article for Assad's Syria should remain without Assad, for now, until the situation becomes clearer. This is trigger happy moderation. There's also no "Syrian Transitional Government", either self-appointed or an internationally recognised one. There's multiple governments right now in what used to be Syria. 145.40.150.167 (talk) 07:13, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

No move has been done here Abo Yemen✉ 07:15, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

This is false. The article here was separated from Syrian Arab Republic. 145.40.150.167 (talk) 07:21, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

that is not a move. That is a newly created article Abo Yemen✉ 07:30, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

There's just so many inconsistencies it is ridiculous.

What is a "de facto" capital of a non-existent state?

What is a "President" post of a region in dispute with multiple governments? None of the three factions in charge (four, if you include Israeli territories) have any post that call themselves a President. None of the three non-Assad factions that aim to control Syria indicated any desire to have a head of state or government called President. For example HTS leader al-Julani calls himself an Emir. The Rojava has Co-Chairs.

All the other country-related points like "currency" and "time zone" etc are now false given the lack of a constitution ruling over what is left of the land.

Either move the article back to Syrian Arab Republic and simply remove Assad as President and link it to the Civil War or completely delist Syria as a country and leave it as a region, much like the Tibet or Moravia articles exist. Absolutely nobody will benefit from fake news such as the Syrian Pound being used in what is left of Syria right now. Or that Syria is waiting for a vacant President.

This is trigger happy moderating by people with too much time on their hands with a desire to rewrite history. It's not informative whatsoever. 145.40.150.167 (talk) 07:20, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

or how about we wait till we have more info? Bashar had fled from syria and Damascus was captured by the opposition. The SAR is no more Abo Yemen✉ 07:31, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

How exactly does an article "wait"? The infobox gotta have something in order to exist Trade (talk) 10:10, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

It already has lots of stuff. We aren't going to add unofficial stuff to the infobox Abo Yemen✉ 10:12, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

The article should not represent the SAR as it is unclear what state(s) is/are in control of Syria. It would be inaccurate to keep the SAR as the representative state as that government has been confirmed to have been deposed by multiple sources. It should stay as a generic article of Syria as a country until there is more clarity. This article should also not be about Syria as a region because there is an ongoing civil war and there is no implication that Syria as a country no longer exists. Slothwizard (talk) 07:47, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 December 2024 (3)

Please change the largest_city value in the infobox from Damascus to capital, so that it renders as seen on the right.

Syria
Capital and largest city	Damascus

TheodoresTomfooleries (talk) 08:03, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

 Done CMD (talk) 10:58, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

What's going on?

The article is being vandalized by everyone, for example why is it written that the secondary languages ​​are Kurdish and Aramaic, and they are not official languages ​​​​in the first place and are not used, and the sources for this in the information box have nothing to do with the matter, such as the source about the Kurdish language, while Aramaic is about the Aramaic language from thousands of years ago and its history and not now, I hope to correct the information box and remove Minor languages ​​​​from the box and return it as it was, and return the name of the country to the Syrian Arab Republic, the fall of the regime does not mean changing the name of the country 109.107.230.237 (talk) 11:51, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Your examples aren't vandalism. Please read WP:VANDALISM before jumping to conclusions. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 01:12, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Remove the anthem?

Would it be nessecary for the anthem to be removed unless free syria and northwestern syria use the same anthem? - WinterJunpei :3 12:26, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I do not think this is currently warranted to remove it, until further changes are announced. There could be a "former" tag put under it SunnyandBunny 21 (talk) 15:45, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@Winterjunpei Actually this anthem serves as the Syrian national anthem from 1938, independently from what status the country has. It is very unlikely to change, at least not the melody. Greek Rebel (talk) 18:58, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

CIA World Factbook

@Skitash, it appears you have been removing info from this source in the infobox claiming it is WP:OR: It is in fact already cited. Here is the link: [5] It is the most recent source in the infobox, and I can’t fathom the reason you are putting forward. Aintabli (talk) 14:13, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Could you please point me to where you found "65% Arab" in the source? Skitash (talk) 14:19, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@Skitash, please press Ctrl+F and copy-paste “Arab ~50%, Alawite ~15%, Kurd ~10%, Levantine ~10%, other ~15% (includes Druze, Ismaili, Imami, Nusairi, Assyrian, Turkoman, Armenian)” Aintabli (talk) 14:27, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I still don't see "65% Arab". Skitash (talk) 14:31, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

65% is the combined 50% and 15% from "Arab" and "Alawite". Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 14:33, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

This is what I meant by the figure being WP:OR. What makes Alawites Arab but not "Levantines"? The CIA World Factbook is unreliable when it comes to Syrian ethnic groups, as it appears to mash up ethnic groups (Arabs), religious groups (Alawites), and geographical designations (Levantines). The source even seems to be including "Nusairi" (another name for Alawites) under the "~15% other" statistic, which is why we should rely on the other sources. Skitash (talk) 14:37, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

That is respectfully not convincing at all. You could try seeking consensus at WP:RSN. Intriguingly, the other two references are from an earlier version of the World Factbook (same source!): [6] (Ctr+F "CIA World Factbook July 2012 estimate") So, you fancy one version of the same source and have not sought any clear consensus on the inclusion of a source that is widely cited throughout Wikipedia and elsewhere. Aintabli (talk) 14:41, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I suggest you read what WP:NOR says. The source clearly makes no mention of the 65% figure, so including it is obviously original research based on your own judgement as to who is Arab or not. Skitash (talk) 14:44, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Okay, if that's your main concern, the source should be reflected as is. And it should most logically replace its earlier versions. Aintabli (talk) 14:47, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I disagree. Like I said, "Alawite" (religious group), "Levantine" (regional designation), "Druze" (religious group), "Ismaili" (Shia branch), and "Imami" (Shia branch) are not ethnic groups. Skitash (talk) 14:53, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Ethnoreligious groups exist. You probably want to ask WP:RSN. These are all your personal interpretations and not based on RS. This has been the long-standing version until several months ago. Apart from that, it is not understandable why you would want to keep one version of the source and cite but not entertain the most recent one. What I can come up for the moment is to replace the figures with "Various estimates" and link it to the relevant section. Would you agree with this? Aintabli (talk) 15:02, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@Skitash, please respond to my suggestion, which is to remove the percentages given there is ambiguity how to dissect certain groups. We can link the relevant section for the percentages. Aintabli (talk) 20:12, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

"remove the percentages" Why should we omit the percentages when these cited sources[7][8] provide clear ethnic breakdowns? The CIA World Factbook source does not divide ethnic groups, but rather conflates ethnic groups, religious groups, and Shia sects, making it unsuitable for this purpose. Skitash (talk) 20:23, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Let me get this straight. The same source is reliable in 2012 but not reliable in 2024 because it contradicts with your personal inferences. Aintabli (talk) 20:38, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello, I hope you remove this person's vandalism and restore the article as it was again. 109.107.230.237 (talk) 21:11, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

The Alawites are Arabs, the Druze are Arabs, the Levantines are Arabs, and among them are the Ismailis, the Imamis, and the Nusayris as well. The CIA World Factbook talks about religious beliefs and matters specifically, and Skitash provided other sources, so why do you want to distort and sabotage the article??? 109.107.230.237 (talk) 14:54, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

why do you want to distort and sabotage the article???

You editing without logging in does not make you immune from WP:CIVIL. Aintabli (talk) 15:02, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Your response has nothing to do with what I said. 109.107.230.237 (talk) 15:16, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Syria map in infobox

This map is incorrect. Hatay is Turkey's district, recognized internationally. Hatay State joined Turkey in 1939. Please change the map. Kadı Message 15:13, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@Kadı The map is correct. Syria never recognized the Turkish annexation of the Sanjak of Alexandretta. –yeagvr · ✉ 15:22, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@Yeagvr, Syria's decision is not important here. Hatay is fully controlled by Turkey and this is recognized internationally. Kadı Message 15:24, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Syria's opinion on whether it disputes the territory inherently defines what we consider disputed. It seems plausible this will change with the new government being heavily influenced by the Turkish government, but it nonetheless remains that Syria has not officially resolved the dispute. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 15:28, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Is it relevant? Imo they didn't even care until the Syrian civil war, used more like a tool to annoy Turkey. It's even unclear if they officially claim it. But the map should show the difference between a claim for Hatay (UN recognized Turkish territory) and Golan (UN recognized occupied Syrian territory). Beshogur (talk) 09:27, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

@Kadı It's not about effective control. As Bronzehorn notes, the Baathist government claimed it as part of Syria (and we don't know what the new govt will do it about it).

I noticed you're Turkish, so you may be biased about it, but that's how it works on en.wiki, look at Venezuela for example. –yeagvr · ✉ 15:29, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@Yeagvr, my nationality is irrelevant with this discussion. Please do not make comments about user's nationalities. I see Venezuela example, I do not support these kinds of maps but, if it works like that in enwiki, I do not say anything again. Kadı Message 15:34, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@Kadı I didn't say it was relevant, but that it could be a reason for misunderstanding.

It was certainly not a negative comment about your nationality.

I understand your point of view, and I’m glad we’ve reached a mutual understanding. –yeagvr · ✉ 15:38, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Make comments on the content, not the user. 176.88.39.125 (talk) 00:37, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

@Yeagvr when will we add whole China to Taiwan page? 𝙲𝚊𝚌𝚝𝚞𝚜 𝚁𝚘𝚗𝚒𝚗 (talk) 16:17, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

We do, it's there now. CMD (talk) 16:19, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@Cactus Ronin In fact, there is such a map. –yeagvr · ✉ 16:19, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@Yeagvr, is there a clear policy on this? I looked up some examples and using the light green this liberally seems counterproductive to me. This is akin to marking Catalonia and the Basque territory out of Spain, because there are non-negligible claims being made there, or we know that many Palestinian groups (some internationally recognised) claim all of Israel. Not all claims hold the same amount of water. I assume you may be using a logic of checking whether a recognised country is making these claims (which would rule out carving out Spain for example) but this is also awkward. There are many countries that claim other territories without doing anything about it, without furthering their claims, without any real plan to get them back etc. Like, in Turkey, there are people who want to revive the Ottoman Empire, if this became official state policy, would we mark a whole lot of Europe and the middle East as light green as well?

What Hatay is within this spectrum of legitimate dispute vs dispute only in words, can be up for debate. I myself am not very knowledgeable about the details of the Syrian claims. Also, having this mindset should also make Hatay light green in the Turkey picture, in order to be consistent. But that would be perhaps even weirder.

Perhaps not the only thing to consider, but I would consider the ideal kind of disputed territory to be one in which the de facto and de jure rulers are different. This is the case in Crimea for example, while being legally recognised as part of Ukraine by most of the world, it is de facto controlled by Russia, making it a perfect candidate for light green. As for Hatay, it has been under the legal and practical rule of Turkey for almost a century at this point, and there hasn't been any real effort from Syria to get it back, either diplomatically or militarily. (Although there does seem to be some cultural work they are doing to raise awareness of Turkification in Hatay, but this isn't even close to annexing)

I would invite you to consider these aspects of the situation and maybe we can create a Wikipedia guideline for this (if there isn't one, if there is I'd be happy if you could send it here)

Sorry about the very long text, I just wanted to make my point especially clear. Egezort (talk) 00:06, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

The light green is a standard part of the map convention, for when territory is seriously claimed, but not controlled. CMD (talk) 01:25, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

@CMD the opposite is also true, right? When an area is controlled, but the more recognised claim is by someone else. Like Crimea is light green for both Russia and Ukraine, the Golan heights are light green for both Syria and Israel, etc. Egezort (talk) 11:15, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Not usually, the Russia, Israel, and Morocco maps are anomalies. CMD (talk) 11:44, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

use the image switcher to find it Abo Yemen✉ 16:21, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

The map does not reflect the international recognition and it is true that Hatay is fully controlled by Turkey, however since its a claim made by the Baathist government it should be changed upon confirmation of a new government and declarations made by it. Bronzehorn (talk) 15:23, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. There's so much in flux right now, we should not presume anything the new government(s) might do or not do. Until such a time as official policies change, the old position endures with the context it might change in the future. JarlJberk (talk) 18:26, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

The map indicates the territory is disputed, and it is. Hatay State was annexed by Turkey in 1939. As Yeagvr notes, this was never recognized by Syria. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 15:23, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia specifically highlights territorial claims of countries in their maps, usually with light green (like in the map used in the infobox). The map is not 'incorrect', it's simply highlighting the fact that Syria claims the area. TheodoresTomfooleries (talk) 16:03, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Syria claims hatay, which is why it is shown as light green (indicating that Syria does not control it) The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 11:24, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

As I stated on Wikimedia Commons, the 2005 agreements state that the two countries recognize each other's borders. The former Syrian regime does not claim any rights over Hatay. [9] Gökhan Can (talk) 21:50, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Removal of the "Current related" template concerning the entire article

The template had already been applied to the section "Government and politics". I think that is sufficient, as the remaining content isn't affected by the fall of the Assad government.

Please signal your opinion in replies below using the text "Support"/"Oppose". It would also be good to find contributors who added this template and call them to this discussion. Y. Dongchen (talk) 22:50, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

What? The current event is totally concerning the whole article on the fall of the government?? Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 01:03, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Hafez or Hafiz?

There are two different spellings for this man's first name in the article. The man's own article spells it Hafez, but there are numerous Hafiz in this article. I realize that Arabic letters can translate to two or more English letters, but it should be consistent. I've always seen Hafez, and heard his name pronounced that way. GBC (talk) 22:52, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Based on Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Arabic, the "common transcription" should be preferred.

Judging by a Google Trends comparison, "Hafiz" has cumulatively been the more popular transliteration among users in all countries since at least 2004. Y. Dongchen (talk) 23:34, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Edit Request: Provisional head of state

The opposition have an elected president named Hadi al-Bahra, who's really calling the shots and represents the Syrian National Coalition. I motion that in the infobox next to President, his name is added in but include "(de facto)". JayzBox (talk) 02:37, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Is there a source saying he is the de facto President? CMD (talk) 03:23, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Nope. But articles have indirectly pointed to him as de facto (acting) head of state.[10][11] JayzBox (talk) 04:44, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Then no, we should not add unsourced information to this article. CMD (talk) 06:29, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

@JayzBox I think that actually the SGO is the authority that took over (at least, de facto). Greek Rebel (talk) 18:55, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 December 2024

Change "" to ""

This is a modified version of the UN OCHA map without the name of the ex-regime. Ketrit (talk) 06:52, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

 Done thank you Abo Yemen✉ 06:55, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

is it me or did Syria get smaller? NoahMusic2009 (talk) 15:00, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

it looks the exact same Abo Yemen✉ 15:12, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Link

why don't we add two links for something largest and something most populous in the introduction. TrueMoriarty (talk) 07:24, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 December 2024 (3)

-- bashar al assas has escpaed from syria so syria is presidentless now 156.208.154.146 (talk) 15:36, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done it already says "Vacant" Abo Yemen✉ 15:43, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Replacement of source 6

The article https://en.pressbee.net/show3562139.html?title=mohammed-al-bashir-assigned-to-form-new-syrian-government, which has been used as source 6, is a PressBee article that, in reality, is a redirected Ammon News article. Therefore, the article should be replaced by https://en.ammonnews.net/article/76979. FSlolhehe (talk) 21:56, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Source has been changed. Thanks for the notice. the wildfire update guy that also writes about other weather (talk) 22:14, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Remove the claims on Hatay province as unclear if the new government still supports them

In the map it still shows Syrian claims on the Hatay province of Türkiye. It's unclear if the transitional government still claims Hatay, so until they make a formal statement best to remove. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 07:29, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

That seems to get things the wrong way around, a change in policy should be sourced. CMD (talk) 07:40, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

@PrecariousWorlds Until transitional govt formally opposes it maintain. Mithilanchalputra(Talk) 09:39, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 December 2024 (2)

Change the flag to the new one, and rewrite the president's name 36.69.153.232 (talk) 12:12, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. CMD (talk) 12:27, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

No official leader has been named for Syria yet, but I agree that the flag should be changed as it is being used officially and has been for a while. It's been used at the embassy in Moscow and shown on state media news channels. NoahMusic2009 (talk) 14:58, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Flag flown in Russia != officially defined flag in the constitution of a state Abo Yemen✉ 15:11, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Thought not in constution, The current transistional administation recognised by this very page has been posing with the opposition flag in communications as recent as 4 days, a still from the same video is even used on the page of the current transistional prime minister which is linked on this page as well. So in a move to make information available faster I believe that flag should be added to this page as well, which will also respect the de-facto truth at ground. ElementLover (talk) 18:46, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

So in a move to make information available faster
Wikipedia:THEREISNODEADLINE; We dont have to place it now. We can wait for the state to be established first Abo Yemen✉ 06:05, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Stop forcing. You don't need a constitution. Many countries have no constitution either. Taliban has no constitution either. Afghanistan Islamic Emirate is not even recognized. That's not how wikipedia works. WP:IDONTLIKEIT Beshogur (talk) 09:05, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

WP:IDONTLIKEITI have made it clear that i want to use the revolutionary flag once they establish their state (Also the taliban has its own constitution what are you on about
Abo Yemen✉ 09:07, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Add the new coat of arms as seen on the official government website.

https://pministry.gov.sy/ has been updated to display a new coat of arms. In addition to the flag which has already been requested by other users I believe this should be added as well since the coat of arms was displayed until the Ba'athist regime fell. Lucid177 (talk) 23:36, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Do not forget the de-facto flag used by Free Syrian Army, or same flag as Pre-Assad rule. TheMisterMooseMan (talk) 17:20, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

@TheMisterMooseMan: A flag will not be added prior to a full 7 days from the start of the RfC discussion. After 7 days, an uninvolved editor will assess the weight of the arguments and determine consensus, keeping in mind that it's WP:NOTAVOTE. Alternatively, the discussion may be relisted in an effort to get more more comments. Hey man im josh (talk) 21:35, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Coat of Arms of Syria and Leader of Syria (Abu Mohammad al-Julani0)

The Coat of Arms of Syria represents the official state symbol, as recognized by the Syrian Prime Ministry. Abu Mohammad al-Julani is the de facto leader of Hay'at Tahrir al-Sham, exerting significant authority in parts of northwestern Syria, as detailed on his [page]. This distinction highlights the complex political and administrative structure within Syria, with multiple entities exercising control. https://pministry.gov.sy/☀☂ please answer back asp to me boss! JNOJ1423 (talk) 01:41, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Jolani did not declare himself the de jure or de facto leader of Syria, he just has authority over civil affairs to a degree so I personally say  No to this idea.

However coat of arms seems to be a de facto adopted so I say  Yes to this decision. 𝙲𝚊𝚌𝚝𝚞𝚜 𝚁𝚘𝚗𝚒𝚗 (talk) 08:34, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Do you similarly also feel we should restore Syrian Arab Republic as the formal name of the state? CMD (talk) 08:54, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Website says "Rebublic", not "Republic", read again carefully. 𝙲𝚊𝚌𝚝𝚞𝚜 𝚁𝚘𝚗𝚒𝚗 (talk) 08:59, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

That's very amateur from them, but I highly doubt rebels using the name "Arab Republic", since it's a Ba'athist thing. There is no constitution either. But I support inclusion of the flag and coa like other users since it's used de facto for now. Beshogur (talk) 09:03, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Arab Republic is on the CoA. CMD (talk) 13:29, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Interesting. Beshogur (talk) 13:49, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

I agree, that's definitely what the state used to be called, and we'll see if there's a change to the official name when the Constitution is adopted (by June). Also, that's what is written on the Coat of Arms, and on the government website. There is also the fact that that's what they're long name registered with the UN is and they haven't gotten around to changing that yet. Littau Eric (talk) 16:44, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

WP:TOOSOON Abo Yemen✉ 16:47, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes, which is why we should leave it at what it was. Littau Eric (talk) 16:50, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

flawed reasoning. We didn't keep the name Islamic Republic of Afghanistan when the republic collapsed Abo Yemen✉ 17:02, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Suggestion

This is an example we could use based on the infobox used by the article about Bolivia Dn9ahx (talk) 13:56, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

This flag is not the same. Some Arabic diacritics are different. Also 2:3 format. We can add both in a way like Transnistria article does. Beshogur (talk) 14:04, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

May I know how the diacritics are different? Abo Yemen✉ 14:12, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

I don't speak Arabic. Compare yourself. Taliban flag, HTS flag. Beshogur (talk) 14:42, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

They say the exact same thing with the exact same symbols/diacritics and the only difference is the designer's/Claigrapher's preference of placing the symbols. (which is the case with the Taliban's flag btw) Abo Yemen✉ 15:20, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Well, it's not the same flag. I've put it as an example. Beshogur (talk) 15:53, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

The thing is that there isn't a standardized way of writing the shahada on those flags (Unlike the Flag of Saudi Arabia where they have clear laws on it [12]) Abo Yemen✉ 16:20, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Syria سُورِيَا (Arabic) Sūriyā
De facto flag De facto coat of arms
Anthem: حُمَاةَ الدِّيَارِ Ḥumāt ad-Diyār "Guardians of the Homeland"
Additional flag used by the Syrian transitional government
Syria proper shown in dark green; Syria's territorial claims over most of Turkey's Hatay Province and the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights shown in light green
Capital and largest city	Damascus 33°30′N 36°18′E
Major languages	Arabic
Minor languages	See: Languages of Syria
Ethnic groups (2021)	80–90% Arabs 9–10% Kurds 1–10% others
Religion (2021)	87% Islam 74% Sunni Islam 13% Alawism and other Shia Islam 10% Christianity 3% Druze
Demonym(s)	Syrian
Government	Transitional government
• President	Vacant
• Vice President	Vacant
• Prime Minister	Mohammed al-Bashir
Legislature	People's Assembly
Establishment
• Arab Kingdom of Syria	8 March 1920
• State of Syria under French mandate	1 December 1924
• First Syrian Republic	14 May 1930
• End of the French mandate	17 April 1946
• Left the United Arab Republic	28 September 1961
• Beginning of Ba'athist rule	8 March 1963
• Ba'athist regime overthrown	8 December 2024
Area
• Total	185,180 km2 (71,500 sq mi) (87th)
• Water (%)	1.1
Population
• 2024 estimate	25,000,753 (57th)
• Density	118.3/km2 (306.4/sq mi) (70th)
GDP (PPP)	2015 estimate
• Total	$50.28 billion
• Per capita	$2,900
GDP (nominal)	2020 estimate
• Total	$11.08 billion
• Per capita	$533
Gini (2022)	26.6 low inequality
HDI (2022)	0.557 medium (157th)
Currency	Syrian pound (SYP)
Time zone	UTC+3 (Arabia Standard Time)
Calling code	+963
ISO 3166 code	SY
Internet TLD	.sy سوريا.

References

Coat Of Arms and Flag add

The new syrian state has adopted a new coat of arms similar to the old one used by the assad regime. It has also used the syrian opposition flag.3ACoat_of_arms_of_Syria_2024.svg is the coat of arms am referring too. Muhllo (talk) 19:29, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 December 2024

Add De Facto flag as per consensus reached in the discussion. WikiNerd202224 (talk) 20:11, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done why are you in a hurry? Abo Yemen✉ 20:14, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Noting that the RfC has not yet reached a consensus, but the requester edited the RfC to state that it had them made this request, which is obviously inappropriate, especially given they were WP:INVOLVED based on their participation in said discussion. Hey man im josh (talk) 21:31, 11 December 2024 (UTC)